Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/SMS Scharnhorst/archive2 Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/SMS_Scharnhorst/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose (talk) 14:05, 10 September 2014 (diff).

Nominator(s): Parsecboy (talk) 20:56, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is the second attempt at FAC for this article - the first was archived due to lack of reviews. As I said at the first attempt, I'd like to run this article on 8 December this year, to commemorate the centenary of the Battle of the Falkland Islands, where this ship was sunk with all hands. Thanks in advance to all who take the time to review the article. Parsecboy (talk) 20:56, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Just FTR, owing to the aforementioned lack of reviews first time round, the nominator obtained leave to launch a second nom without the usual two-week waiting period. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 23:22, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose per standard disclaimer. I've looked at the changes made since I reviewed this for A-class. These are my edits. - Dank (push to talk) 22:22, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Source review - spotchecks not done

• Check alphabetization of References
  • Fixed, good eye!
• You have county/state for one location but not for others - suggest adding a few more. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:36, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've lately been of the mind that state/country info really isn't useful in the references since it doesn't help find the reference and it usually isn't recommended by style guides, so I removed the one that was here. Thanks for checking these as always, Nikki. Parsecboy (talk) 12:33, 11 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• File:SMS Scharnhorst by Arthur Renard.jpg - Very good picture, but the resolution is rather disappointing. Sometimes you have to take what you can get.
• File:Scharnhorst2.jpg Copyright's fine, image... rather a bad copy. Again, you take what you get.
• File:Scharnhorst class Brassey's.jpg Possible problem You have a American copyright tag on a work from a British publisher. At best, this needs redocumented, at worst, this needs moved to en-wiki and marked with {{PD-US-1923-abroad}}.
  • I haven't been able to find the 1913 edition of TNA in Google Books, but from the 1904 and 1911 editions it looks like Sydney W. Barnaby, who was a naval architect at Thornycroft, made the illustrations (though curiously, the German ships are omitted from the 1911 edition). Oddly enough, the 1907 edition has the German ships, including Scharnhorst, but Barnaby isn't credited (nor is anyone else). According to this he died in 1927 so we should be ok. Parsecboy (talk) 14:38, 13 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'll update the image description page. If this problem applies to every illustration in commons:Category:Brassey's Naval Annual ...get a bot.

• File:Schantung Kiautschou.jpg Insufficient documentation of copyright rationale: I'd like to see why it's presumed anonymous for copyright purposes. Illustrators are sometimes listed only at the front of a book. As before, could always move it here to en-wiki and {{PD-US-1923-abroad}} it.
  • You're probably right - I've moved it here since I don't have access to the book. Parsecboy (talk) 14:38, 13 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• File:SMS Scharnhorst (1).jpg Fine.
• File:Vonspee1.JPG Fine.
• File:The German far eastern squadron in Kiau-Chau Bay.jpg Copyright tag invalid. You can't say you don't know the photographer, then say he definitely died within 70 years. We need either good evidence of anonymous publication, or it moved here and - you know the drill about what tag to use by now.
  • Well, and there's a possibility that it wasn't a European photographer so the anonymous rule might not apply. I've moved it here as well. Parsecboy (talk) 14:38, 13 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• File:Escadre allemande d'Extrême-Orient 1914 1915-de.svg Fine.
• File:Battle of Coronel map.svg Fine.
• File:Ostasiengeschwader Graf Spee in Chile.jpg Fine, but can't we get higher resolution for these?
• File:Battle of the Falkland Islands (1914) Map.png Fine.
• File:Thomas Jacques Somerscales, Sinking of 'The Scharnhorst' at the Battle of the Falkland Islands, 8 December 1914.jpg Fine.
• File:Cfbattlepainting.jpg Fine, though a terrible reproduction.

Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 16:52, 12 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your work; once I've edited the Brassey's, I think everything is now cleared. Support Adam Cuerden ^(talk)

Oh, one other thing, though it's a minor point: File:Schantung Kiautschou.jpg is very obviously tilted. Shall I just rotate it and reupload over? Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 16:25, 13 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, if you don't mind! Though the local version is here. Parsecboy (talk) 16:28, 13 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments

• Don't know why you should put the exact tonnage in the lede, but if you want it, it needs to be hyphenated as a compound adjective.
  • Yeah, I don't know why I did that either. Just removed it entirely.
• Link magazines and define "machinery spaces" a bit better for ordinary readers. And conning tower.
  • Done.
• Add something specifying that Glasgow was under Cradock's command.
  • It's in the following paragraph.
• Otherwise looks pretty good.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 19:57, 17 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for reviewing, Sturm. Parsecboy (talk) 12:36, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by Peacemaker67 (send... over) 13:27, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Drop the tonnage in the lead sentence, totally unnecessary given the tonnage is covered in the first section
  • Done, see above.
• "who recalled the attacks of foreigners" "on foreigners"?
  • Good catch.
• suggest "On 13 April, the ships went on a month-long cruise in Japanese waters, returning to Tsingtao on 13 May."
  • Sounds good to me
• "secondary 15 cm guns" convert template needed
  • It's converted earlier in the article - I only convert on the first instance.
• the maps of the East Asia Squadron and the map of the Falkland Islands deployments need to be bigger, 250px perhaps
  • Heh, I have my default set at 300px so I didn't even think of that.
• alt text is required for all images
  • As far as I'm aware alt text isn't a requirement at FAC, but I've added it nonetheless.
    • Not having a crack at you personally, but when would it be a requirement then? Not at ACR? Not at FAC? If WP doesn't require alt text for its best articles, that is a half-arsed sick joke, and it should dispense with the idea completely. Accessibility is important. I have a kid with special needs, and I find it ridiculous that accessibility is absolutely required for tables at FLC (and I have the scars to prove it), but not for images at FAC? WP needs to get its shit together on accessibility. Rant over. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 13:04, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
      • As far as I recall, it was a requirement several years ago, but a lot of people were upset about it (for whatever reason) and it was withdrawn as a formal requirement - I seem to think the problem was no one could decide what exactly was useful as alt text. Parsecboy (talk) 13:07, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• Scharnhorst2 is probably redundant, given there is a contemporaneous pic in the infobox at high speed
• A bit surprised there are no mentions of her successor battleship
  • Added a bit on this.
• there are no redirects to this article, I would think "German cruiser Scharnhorst" would be a very reasonable redirect
  • Added
• suggest adding refbegin and refend templates to References section
  • I don't generally like using them unless the ref section is excessively large - I'd say it's fine as is.
• ISBNs are fine, no need for OCLC as well
  • Removed

Great article, a few tweaks needed, but looking very good. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 13:27, 23 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your review! Parsecboy (talk) 12:36, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

No prob. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 13:04, 29 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment -- Just FTR, generally we prefer to see some commentary from outside the subject's wikiproject but this has been open a long time so that's a luxury I think we'll have to do without, especially given it's the article's second time at bat here... Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:04, 10 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 14:05, 10 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.