Help talk:Score/Archive 1 Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Score/Archive_1

This is an archive of past discussions about Help:Score. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

{{xtag|score}} gives <score> which links to this help page. --  Gadget850 ^talk 18:06, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

How do I get the "second" a, if I write:

<score> \relative c' { a } </score>
I get this:

But if I write: <score> \relative c' { f a } </score>
I get (its this a I want to have at the beginning):

Christian75 (talk) 11:12, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

You could either specify the explicit octave for a' or change the relative anchor: <score>{ a' }</score> gives

and <score>\relative f' { a }</score> gives also

. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:51, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Is there a way to control the size of the score? Generally, I think it's too big by at least 30%. Compare Alle Jahre wieder in this version using {{MusicScore}} with this version using <score>, or Ihr Kinderlein, kommet similarly before and after. I had a look at the documentation, but couldn't get any of the commands to reduce horizontal spacing to work and I didn't find anything about scaling the output as a whole. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 08:30, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Seconded. Of course there is Lilypond syntax to change the output size, but the default size is somewhat large to my taste.--KlausFoehl (talk) 12:23, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I would be grateful if you could produce an example in smaller size; this would be useful for the incipits at 42 études ou caprices and probably in a lot of other articles. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:38, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

<score> #(set-global-staff-size 14) { \clef bass c8 c c c c c c c } </score>

That usually works, but not here - maybe due to security reasons?? (submitted as question at mediawiki) --KlausFoehl (talk) 18:56, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

This looks great, but the current format for showing the markup in the examples doesn't really work. You're using some special tag, and it breaks the pagewrapping and also doesn't clearly show use of ' (because they get treated as marking italics and bolding). It would be clearer to use the plain <nowiki> tags around it.

Is there a good reason why the special tags were being used instead? 86.161.209.128 (talk) 19:55, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

I just took the use of the template {{tag}} as I found it on the page. I think it displays almost all wikicode properly, except the pipe character. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:15, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

But it messed up the multiple apostrophes, interpreting them as italics. -- Ypnypn (talk) 03:23, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

You're right, I see it now. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:31, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

That's much better. But what's the advantage of using the tag template, rather than nowiki? What does it do? If you use nowiki, you'd just write out exactly what coding you use, and it displays it exactly (so you wouldn't need the pipe work-arounds). Is breaking the pagewrapping an advantage? 86.161.209.128 (talk) 06:40, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Give me a bit and I will do a vertical version of {{markup}}. --  Gadget850 ^talk 09:39, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Here is a preliminary example:

Example

Markup	<score>\relative c' { f d f a d f e d cis a cis e aes g f e }</score>
Renders as

--  Gadget850 ^talk 20:50, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

New updates ... daily!

If I type:

<score>\relative c' { f2 e4 c } \addlyrics { \set stanza = #"1. " If I could... } \addlyrics { \set stanza = #"2. " What a shame... }</score>

I get:

Example:

Markup	<score>\relative c' { c( b~ c b c b c b c~ c)}</score>
Renders as

†

Example:

Markup	<score>\relative c' { a\ff\> b c\! d\pp}</score>
Renders as

Example:

Markup	<score>\relative c' { \partial 4 c d d c}</score>
Renders as

Example:

Markup	<score>\relative c' { \times 2/3 { c e g c c c g e} c}</score>
Renders as

Coming soon! — Preceding unsigned comment added by QM400032 (talk • contribs) 02:36, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

†"I don't understand how ties work!" Yes, there really is a problem, but I might be fixing it – with adding the same note afterwards.

QM400032 (talk) 23:30, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I pulled the error list from the code:

If we create help for these, we can edit the interface pages to link. --  Gadget850 ^talk 00:21, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

How does copyright law apply to the use of musical scores in Wikipedia?
—Wavelength (talk) 22:37, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Lyrics and poetry. --  Gadget850 ^talk 23:20, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. That page can be listed under "See also" on "Help:Score".

—Wavelength (talk) 23:48, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Hello, it looks like score cannot be rendered to pdf, only the source code will be printed.--Sinuhe20 (talk) 21:09, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Filed a bug. --Glaisher [talk] 09:23, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Really nice tool.

On various sheet music and chord sites, there are typically two buttons: Transpose up, and transpose down. I suggest that the score viewer should have that as well, to allow the user to choose what key to show (and play).

I also have a question: I added chords to a song using "\chords", but when I added the lilypond "\transpose" keyword, the chords did not change key, only the sheet music. Is there a solution to this? Mange01 (talk) 16:04, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Like this:

YewBowman (talk) 12:01, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Hello! Which are the available instruments for MIDI reproduction? It seems that only piano and violin are installed. -Theklan (talk) 13:48, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

@Theklan: Vater unser im Himmelreich successfully uses "english horn". I tested some other options from http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.14/Documentation/notation/midi-instruments – with mixed results. The "trombone" and "church organ" and "tubular bells" and "timpani" and "voice oohs" also worked for me. The "banjo" and "bagpipe" and "choir aahs" did not. Your mileage may vary... Patrug (talk) 10:11, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

@Patrug:: I've noted that some pieces of documentation are wrong. As Vater unser im Himmelreich works with \set Staff.midiInstrument = "english horn" documentation says that the correct way is \set Staff.midiInstrument = #"bassoon", with a # before the instrument. Some instruments work like this, some other not. -Theklan (talk) 10:48, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

@Theklan: Curious indeed. I just added a sentence to Help:Score#MIDI instruments, summarizing these observations and encouraging some trial & error. Hope this helps. —Patrug (talk) 06:11, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Michael Bednarek or KlausFoehl, Did you ever find a way to make the score smaller? By a quarter or third would be an ideal one, but any shrinkage would be welcome. Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 09:50, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. No, I haven't, but I have haven't tried either – it's too hard and there are more important things in RL and WP I'd like to concentrate on. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:03, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

@SchroCat, Michael Bednarek, and KlausFoehl: I just came tantalizingly close to solving this. At "Lasst uns erfreuen", I put a \layout command that created a nice compact version of the score, following the LilyPond documentation. Unfortunately, it went on to print an unmodified copy of the score below the compact one, so for now I left the \layout command as a comment in the markup. Maybe I'm overlooking something in the syntax, or maybe WP is translating something incorrectly? Feel free to try some sandbox experiments. If anyone can figure out how to suppress the unwanted second copy, then we'll have the re-sizing problem at least partially solved. —Patrug (talk) 09:46, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

@SchroCat, Michael Bednarek, and KlausFoehl:

OK, here's a workaround. It seems the Score extension normally defaults to a simplified implementation of LilyPond, which does not fully conform to LilyPond's documentation manual, and which misinterprets the layout code:

<score>
   \relative { \time 3/4  \partial 4  c''8 b a4 g c8 b a4 g f8 e d2. c2 \bar "|." }
   \layout { line-width = 85\mm }
</score>

to produce the unwanted double score that I described above:

The workaround is to invoke the Score extension with attribute raw="1", which then correctly interprets the full markup according to LilyPond's documentation:

<score raw="1">
\header { tagline = ##f }
\score {
   \relative { \time 3/4  \partial 4  c''8 b a4 g c8 b a4 g f8 e d2. c2 \bar "|." }
   \layout { line-width = 100\mm }
} </score>

to produce the desired result:

Sinuhe20/Spielwiese has some good examples using raw="1", but this important attribute isn't really discussed at Help:Score or Extension:Score. I'll try to add a couple of explanatory sentences to these pages, where editors of English Wikipedia are more likely to look. —Patrug (talk) 12:24, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

In January there was a discussion about using curved triplets brackets rather than square ones. The thread started here: [1] Hans Aikema investigated the problem and found that Wiki "embeds the lilypond in a template of its own". He further dug out the use of raw="1" to defeat this problem. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 19:21, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Martin, this is helpful confirmation that raw="1" (and random "#" signs!) are frequent workarounds for Wikipedia's limited LilyPond implementation. This week I'll definitely add some explanatory notes to Help:Score, and maybe also to mw:Extension:Score itself. —Patrug (talk) 08:46, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Often the best way to learn is often by example, so it would be useful to list a few articles with different types of score so that editors could inspect how they were generated. My shortlist is mostly those that I created:

• Violin Concerto No. 5 (Mozart), accents and chords
• Bugeilio'r Gwenith Gwyn, simple melody with words
• Gwahoddiad, melody with two sets of words, to the side of the main text
• Cwm Rhondda, hymn tune: four part harmony with words

Suggestions would be welcomed. Is there any way to list all the pages that use the score extension? There is Category:Pages with score rendering errors, but I can't see anything like Category:Pages with scores. Could this be generated automatically? Or is it possible to construct a Google search to find these pages? Verbcatcher (talk) 17:06, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

The page overleaf shows under Help:Score#See also a special page exactly for this purpose: Special:PagesWithProp/score. That would even be more helpful if it could be restricted to article space, but I don't know how to do that. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 22:43, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

I see it now, Special:PagesWithProp/score, thanks. I will explore it for more examples, as I say above, I propose to add a curated list of few pages that illustrate how do various things, such as multiple staves and multiple line of text. I will try to find some useful examples. Verbcatcher (talk) 01:27, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Sinuhe20/Spielwiese also has a good collection of examples, which are reasonably clear even for those of us who don't read German. —Patrug (talk) 12:24, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

That is useful resource, and one that I would have found helpful when I was struggling with the syntax. However, I am reluctant to link to a user page because its content may be very dynamic and have less oversight than articles.

I find that de:Special:PagesWithProp/score lists the articles with scores in German Wikipedia, other language prefixes also work. Do all Wikipedia language editions use the same implementation of <score>? Verbcatcher (talk) 23:32, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

According to the edit history, Sinuhe20/Spielwiese was created during one week in 2014 (mostly during an impressive six-hour burst) and has been untouched ever since. Since it's both helpful & stable, please feel free to include it in your curated list of pages, and/or cut & paste some of Sinuhe20's particular examples with proper credit.

mw:Extension:Score is under MediaWiki, so it should indeed be consistent across Wikipedia languages, though realistically I'd expect some complications for right-to-left languages like Arabic. —Patrug (talk) 08:46, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

It seems that vorbis="1" is no longer working:

What happened? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 05:34, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

I think vorbis="1" is working, but a change in formatting is obscuring it. I've looked at previous good examples and the same behaviour is visible. I also note that on a refresh or edit the sound bar comes up, then disappears. The actual line in question is rendered as:

It seems that <code>vorbis="1"</code> is no longer working:
<div class="mw-ext-score" data-midi="//upload.wikimedia.org/score/o/a/oaz8a7c01g32iry2g8hxs1uolhphqak/oaz8a7c0.midi" data-source="//upload.wikimedia.org/score/o/a/oaz8a7c01g32iry2g8hxs1uolhphqak/oaz8a7c0.ly">
  <img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/score/o/a/oaz8a7c01g32iry2g8hxs1uolhphqak/oaz8a7c0.png" width="198" height="111" alt=" \relative c&#39;&#39; { \set Staff.midiInstrument = #&quot;bassoon&quot; \clef treble \numericTimeSignature \time 4/4 \tempo &quot;Lento&quot; 4 = 50 \stemDown c4\fermata(_&quot;solo ad lib.&quot; \grace { b16[( c] } b g e b&#39; \times 2/3 { a8)\fermata } } " />
  <div class="mediaContainer" style="width:300px">
    <audio id="mwe_player_0" controls="" preload="none" style="width:300px" class="kskin" data-disablecontrols="options,timedText" data-durationhint="4.8004535147392">
      <source src="//upload.wikimedia.org/score/o/a/oaz8a7c01g32iry2g8hxs1uolhphqak/oaz8a7c0.ogg" type="application/ogg; codecs=&quot;vorbis&quot;" />
    </audio>
  </div>
</div>

This looks OK, and the fact that the audio bar flashes up is why I suspect something else. HTH, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:48, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for providing the HTML code. However, it doesn't help. What are the classes "mediaContainer", "kskin"? Why does it say controls="" ? According to https://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_audio.asp, that doesn't look right. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:34, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

It's now working again. I wish those experimenting with this feature and occasionally breaking it would let us know. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:28, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I wanted to add an example to the backdoor progression page, and I don't know lilypond, and poring through the documentation takes time (and much as lily is great and versatile and all, it's not exactly the shallowest of learning curves and from past experiences of using it it takes me a while to even get off the ground). Since ABC is quick and intuitive, when I saw that it was supported here, I thought I'd use that rather than downloading musescore, taking a screenshot, and uploading an image.

here is the code I used:

<score lang="ABC">
X: 1
T: 
M: 4/4
L: 2/4
K: C clef=treble_8
[F  c _e _a]   [_B, _A d f]|        [C  G A e ] |
</score>

and here is how it renders

The clef, note duration, and time signature are missing (displaying as their defaults; treble, common time, and 8ths, respectively._

Here's a link to render ABC in the browser so you can see for yourself: https://abcjs.net/abcjs-editor.html

While trying to find the problem, I couldn't find anything on the wikipedia help about the ABC implementation. Is this depreciated?

Tomatoswoop (talk) 03:13, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

As you can see, it's rendering, so it's not deprecated, and mw:Extension:Score and its talk page don't call it that either. However, according to mw:Extension:ABC, it's been unmaintained for a long time (marked in January 2013). I have never used ABC, so I can't help you with the syntax. Maybe you can find the answer at http://www.lesession.co.uk/abc/abc_notation.htm — After 2 minutes, I found that one change to your input takes care of note lengths. I have no idea why it shows common time and not 4/4. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:12, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Has there been a discussion anywhere about whether there is a preference to use <score>...</score> versus images (.jpg, .svg) to represent musical samples in articles? WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 15:05, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I would expect it to be a matter of editorial judgement. If you are wanting to publish the opening page of Beethoven's 9th then I suspect an image would be more appropriate. If you are wanting to make a simple melody available than can be manipulated by the user and played, then a score is the right way to go. If comparing pieces then using the built in midi gives a clean (if antispetic) line, if you are referring to a great performance of the past then an Ogg Vorbis sound file would be appropriate. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 15:27, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

When you use vorbis = "1", the player cuts into notes below the staff. See for instance, C major. Anyone know a fix for this? Squandermania (talk) 03:42, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

I second this. Player is several pixels higher than score image, but it shows ok in mobile version. Seems like problem with css, I'll ask on WP:TECHPUMP. --M5 (talk) 21:55, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm also seeing this. It appears that a workaround is to add an empty lyrics line. I had to put a hyphen in the lyrics, but this is not displayed. Put \addlyrics { - } before </score>. Verbcatcher (talk) 00:16, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

• Without lyrics

• With empty lyrics

Verbcatcher (talk) 00:18, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Brilliant. Thank you very much. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 07:06, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

The problem with this workaround that it renders "-" on the bottom of the score and it shows e.g. on mobile version. Also it will show again when (hopefully) the bug will be resolved. --M5 (talk) 10:22, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

See phab:T216305. --M5 (talk) 10:22, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Something is wrong. Sometimes the notes are placed within a complete page with much whitespace around.

Correct (first example from this help page):

<score> {c' d' e' f' f' fes' eis' e'} </score>

Defective (I only changed the last note):

<score> {c' d' e' f' f' fes' eis' f'} </score>

What could cause such an effect? --Rodomonte (talk) 18:25, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

Problem confirmed on Firefox running under Linux, so not our friend the IOS issue. I also tried introducing vobis=1, a tempo mark and a key signature, but the effect of changing the e to an f is the same. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 19:56, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

I have the impression that all existing scores still work, even in a new article, but all the new ones fail. Perhaps the rendering is completely broken, but there is some kind of cache from which the old scores are still loaded. --Rodomonte (talk) 20:18, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

I've encountered this problem in the last few days as well. Squandermania (talk) 12:10, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

This has now been raised at phab:T218535. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:54, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

phab:T218535 has now been marked as resolved. I don't know how to regenerate a Lilypond .PNG at Wikimedia, in this case, so I simply added a final (unnecessary) bar line,

<score> {c' d' e' f' f' fes' eis' f' |} </score>

and it displays fine now. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:53, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

I've tried the snippet located on LilyPond's documentation (copied below) to write microtonal music but the code doesn't compile.

\include "makam.ly"

\relative c' {
  \set Staff.keyAlterations = #`((6 . ,(- KOMA)) (3 . ,BAKIYE))
  c4 cc db fk
  gbm4 gfc gfb efk
  fk4 db cc c
}

Is this because the \include statement doesn't work? χ_chi (talk) 19:13, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

I would be very surprised if it did. Where will the Wikipedia server being including the file from? Remember that your browser is just displaying the page, the server is building it - how else would I for example see it? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 20:10, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Right, that's what I thought. So is there a way to get this library's functionalities to work within the Score extension? χ_chi (talk) 22:49, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

I expect you'll have to include the file yourself. There is another point to be aware of though, the documentation only refers to 2.14 whereas your microtonal example is from 2.19.81. It might work, but then again it may complain the version is too low. Good luck! Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:55, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Is it possible to include makam.ly on the server? --kupirijo (talk) 21:23, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Which version of LilyPond is used as the backend of the Score extension on Wikipedia? The are syntax changes that break compatibility between, for example, v2.12 and v2.16. Sammo (now Burkenyo) (talk) 23:13, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

@Burkenyo: (I think you're the Sammo that wrote above) I asked this question at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 137#Lilypond version and it seems that it uses Lilypond 2.14. I added this information to Help:Score. Fern 24 (talk) 13:29, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Extension:Score 0.2 (2013-04-23) suggests that it is working with 1.18+. Are there any plans to move to using later versions? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 22:04, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Special:Version#Installed_software displays the LilyPond version. I updated the version here and mw:Extension:Score mentions Software:Version. Skierpage (talk) 00:10, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Hello from the Teahouse, where an issue was raised today (see here) about music scores not displaying a playbar using an iPad, and thus being unable to play the notation. I can confirm that on my own iPhone with default Safari browser I do not see any playbar either, so can't play the music, whereas I have no problem displaying or playing them on a Windows PC with Chrome.

If there are known browser or iOS compatibility issues, the Help:Score page could really benefit from an additional section explaining what these may be, and how to resolve them if at all possible. Pinging Martin of Sheffield who previously commented on issues of the player not functioning. Many thanks, Nick Moyes (talk) 10:41, 8 March 2019 (UTC) (Teahouse Host)

Thanks for the compliment! I'll reply at the Teahouse. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:03, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for your response at WP:TH. Having subsequently asked at WP:VPT, it looks like the .ogg/iOS incompatibility issue is known about and might one day be addressed. See this Phabricator ticket from 2014. Nick Moyes (talk) 15:36, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Task T68722 is about, in part, iOS not supporting certain media formats including OGG audio. But that task has a comment from 2018 "Audio should work now (using MP3 transcodes)". If a [[File:somefile.oga]] wikilink to media, for example , works in iOS, then the problem with the Score extension on iOS would seem to be the more specific task T252795, "Ogg Vorbis audio from the Score extension is not transcoded to MP3 on iOS." Skierpage (talk) 00:28, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi. I noticed changes in MIDI support, including the big one that since 2019 mw:Extension:TimedMediaHandler handles MIDI files, then got sidetracked into documenting them.

• midi="1" has been obsolete for a while, every score image now has a JavaScript popup offering download of the Lilypond and MIDI files. I'm not sure what happens if the Score extension doesn't produce a MIDI file (if this is even possible).
• vorbis="1" is deprecated, use sound="1" instead. As I understand it, the Score extension supports generating an MP3 file with the Lame encoder (unused I think on Wikipedia sites), and it may be that when the Score extension hands off audio generation to the TimedMediaHandler extension (more below), TMH will generate a .MP3 on iOS. So sound="1" is more accurate and less technical. I don't see any plan to remove vorbis attribute, and based on unscientific search for insource:/score vorbis=\"1\"/ there are hundreds of pages on English Wikipedia with the deprecated attribute. Also, I'm not sure that the VisualEditor support for the score tag knows/prefers the sound attribute.
• override_midi and override_audio are deprecated. More on these below.

Per mw:Project:Tech News/2019#Tech News: 2019-25

* MIDI files can soon be played without the Score extension. You can then add them with [[File:Filename.midi]]. Later override_midi and override_audio will stop working. Instead you will need to add the MIDI file below the music score. [2]

That task is T135597, "Move MIDI to audio conversion from Score into TimedMediaHandler." The Score extension already relies on TMH to provide an audio player, so if I understand correctly, it's less code and bugs for it to hand off generating the audio file for the player to TMH. Once that happens, override_midi="better_midi_file.mid" and override_audio="better_midi_file.ogg" won't work. Pages using these are already flagged in Category:Pages using deprecated score attributes.

As the Tech News item hints, putting a wikilink like [[File:somefile.mid]] or [[File:better sounding audio.oga]] underneath the score tag will create a player that looks the same, so that's the workaround. It seems to me some functionality may be lost, e.g. the MIDI file in the JavaScript popup for the score image won't be the improved MIDI file. On the Score extension's talk page, User:Michael Bednarek commented:

The generation of MIDI files may have improved, but I think the override is mostly done with .ogg files. These could be sound files from actual performances, or from MIDI files that editors have created in their own environment with Soundfonts or similar which most likely generates better sound than this extension. Then there are cases where LilyPond doesn't produce certain ornaments at all.

Searching for insource:"override_midi=" finds 50 pages on en-wiki with override_midi, 7 with override_audio, and 18 with override_ogg.

I hope this helps. -- Skierpage (talk) 02:21, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your explanation, but the essence of this change is to remove functionality. The documented method at mw:Extension:Score ("you can add a [[File:name.mid]] wikilink after the score tag.") doesn't seem to work. A <score>...</score> using a filename: <score sound="1" [[File:La tartine de beurre first 8.ogg]] >

What we hear is the imperfectly generated MIDI sound, where the old method sounded the replacement file: <score override_ogg="La tartine de beurre first 8.ogg">

The alternative of placing the sound file manually below the score or somewhere else in the article is hardly satisfactory. Can you point to any example where the non-deprecated method using [[File:… works? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:57, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Your example <score sound="1" [[File:La tartine de beurre first 8.ogg]] > put the wikilink inside the score tag, and you don't want the sound attribute if you're going to provide a better audio file. If you put it after the closing tag, it works, e.g.:

(Lovely piano BTW) -- Skierpage (talk) 10:44, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Emphatically: Do not remove – As someobody else who has used this a few times, I certainly think that it should be kept. The reason it's used so little is because:

• a) editors are generally not familiar with lilypond
• b) there are relatively few examples so far where there are currently acceptable midi/audio files in place of the default output (the default audio can by itself be quite tolerable - see wikisource:The Army and Navy Hymnal for plenty of such examples)) - or at least relatively few where an editor that is familiar enough with lilypond (see point a) has found one... (see for example this, or this).
• c) because something is used "relatively rarely" (see the numbers I bring up below) doesn't mean it should be removed...

I assume the cases where it is a midi file have similar explanations (ornementation can be approximated rather well, if not perfectly; or maybe additional instruments not present in the sheet music for simplicity reasons...). For the record, I made searches for insource:"score vorbis" (599 in article space; searching in all namespaces yields 711 but I assume most of these are examples on talk pages/tp archives, documentation, sandboxes...)); "score audio=" (17) ... Quick math (just on en-wiki): 50+7+18 / 599+17+50+7+18 = 75 / 691 = 11% of cases).

This, if anything, proves my point that few editors are familiar with lilypond. I hardly find that justification for removing a useful feature (using the "override_audio"/"override_midi" parameters seems also clearer and more intuitive syntax). Additionally, this extension is surely used on other wikis (it's used a Wikisource, too, where I have employed the override option at least once). Thanks, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 03:36, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Please note I'm just a messenger. I figured editors might have overlooked the Tech News item, so it was worth documenting the deprecation in various places and highlighting here, though it seems what I wrote is unclear for which I apologize. Anyway, I'm no expert but I don't understand what you're saying. If someone doesn't know LilyPond syntax then how are they using the Score extension? They'll continue to insert a wiki link to the audio file, as on e.g. wikisource:The Army and Navy Hymnal/Hymns/Our God, Our Help in Ages Past (which doesn't use the score tag). Maybe you're confused by the Tech News item I quoted, which says "Instead you will need to add the MIDI file below the music score" without explicitly saying you can instead add an audio file (I improved my opening talk comment above to say this). I took Eternal Father, Strong to Save and swapped its override_audio=better audio file attribute with a File:better audio file wikilink underneath on my Sandbox page, check it out; the before and after look identical. Does that help? Feel free to make changes. Also I don't know if the relevant developers hang out on this page, if they don't then saying "do not remove" here isn't going to reach the right people. You can mention your concerns on the Phabricator task, but I suggest linking to a clear example of your problem. Cheers. Skierpage (talk) 10:44, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much for efforts to clarify this matter. After looking at your sandbox, I now believe there is no loss of functionality. But changing current instances of override to the new format is probably not suited to an automated replacement. Cheers, Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:16, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Regarding "editors are generally not familiar with lilypond", I meant to say that not all editors who write lilypond are familiar with some of it's features and even then they might not be familiar with the specifics of it's implementation on wikipedia and related projects (override_audio &c. fall under that - I personally discovered them only by accident when looking through the documentation for something else). Just for clarification, the pages at Wikisource actually are transcluded, see eg. wikisource:The Army and Navy Hymnal/Hymns/Our God, Our Help in Ages Past is a transclusion of wikisource:Page:The Army and Navy Hymnal.djvu/32. Anyway I still stand by my statement that the parameters are a clearer syntax. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 14:07, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

At this moment, <score>...</score> is completely broken – it doesn't render anything, instead it displays the source code. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:02, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

It's working at The Cullercoats Fish Lass. And in user space Martin of Sheffield (talk) 14:19, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm not seeing a problem either. Maybe check the syntax of your code. Squandermania (talk) 15:14, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

Those two aren't working for me either. Every occurrence of <score> in every Wikipedia language doesn't work, in Firefox, Chrome, IE, not in the Wikipedia app on my Android phone or on my wife's iPhone in Safari, not on my laptop. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:50, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

I've just purged the cache and gone to both the above examples. They render correctly and play the melody as expected. I'm running Firefox 60.2.2esr under CentOS 7.5.1804, patched as of yesterday. Which page is it you are having problems with? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:07, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

It's ok now everywhere again. Must have been a 1-day anomaly. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:17, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

I'm seeing a lot of broken scores with the error message "Musical scores are temporarily disabled". I wonder if it has anything to do with the new Visual Editor, even if I'm working in source mode? Lwangaman (talk) 08:23, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm also seeing the message that "Musical scores are temporarily disabled"; but I've not found any explanation of why. So it's not just you who is experiencing that issue. 2600:2B00:7F01:5E00:F900:DF5A:5454:F088 (talk) 23:22, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Example (taken from an already working instance on this same page): Lwangaman (talk) 08:26, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

I also noted that quite a few old scores that used to work no longer do. There's a remarkable absence of any action at phab:T257066 – see below at #Error message. Old scores that had been cached continued to work until recently. Most still do, but some don't. I don't know why. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:14, 18 October 2020 (UTC)

Shouldn't Help:Score be updated? Right now it says that score has been disabled, but that's not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.173.218.150 (talk) 23:06, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

They're still broken. Just now I went to The Cullercoats Fish Lass and uncommented vorbis=1. The score disappeared and the infamous message "Musical scores are temporarily disabled." reappeared in preview. (Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four keyboard tildes like this: ~~~~. Or, you can use the [ reply ] button, which automatically signs posts.) Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:48, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

I was not aware of the vorbis=1 workaround. I presume a bot recently went through and made a bulk change. Any article I've seen with a score is working. Presumably all vorbis — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.173.218.150 (talk) 00:40, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

On WP, it depends on the English used, .

It seems like a really good argument against LiiyPonD, rather than images and sound files which can' handle tuning Hyacinth (talk) 16:03, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Has anyone received the "Musical scores are temporarily disabled." message? I am able to copy and paste scores from here and they are rendered fine, but as soon as I change one note I get this message. Is this something new? Pigby2 (talk) 12:36, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

LilyPond and <score> has been turned off and on several times since at least 4 July 2020; see phab:T257066. There seems to be some concern, the details of which are not disclosed, that LilyPond in a certain configuration is a security problem. It's a very annoying situation, and it doesn't seem to get a lot of attention fixing it. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:50, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Going off this link ( https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/lilypond-devel/2020-10/msg00096.html ) they don't seem at all bothered about fixing it. Someone with clout is needed as that link reeks of "It's not my problem". 164.39.195.26 (talk) 11:54, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you!Pigby2 (talk) 16:54, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

If the issue is questionable security, might it be reasonable to instead rely on an easier-to-secure format like MusicXML? Or to look into a way of maybe offering it as an option? It's more verbose, but it was built for the particular purpose of music interchange, and it supports about everything you could ever want to. 24.128.20.42 (talk) 03:45, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

That is so annoying ——羊羊32521 (talk) 04:29, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I've just hit it trying to improve the tempo of a piece. It appears that the original score is cached somewhere, but as soon as you make a change the error appears. It's one of the great things about a computerised encyclopedia; you can hear snippets and melodies which particularly assist those who can't read scores. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:40, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

I'm getting this message right now, 20th October 2020 --Tomatoswoop (talk) 18:54, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

More details: on this page Quarter_tone#Music_of_the_Middle_East the three scores at the top of the article are visible, but the two at the bottom show the error message: (screenshots: [1] [2]) --Tomatoswoop (talk) 19:13, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Note that the visible scores begin with "

The file "''[file name]''.ogg" you specified with override_audio is invalid. Please specify the file name only, omit [[…]] and the "File:" prefix.

although I would prefer "Horn in F", but more importantly, the transposition is still unsolved. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:53, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

I added \transposition f to the above; which works as expected. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 11:07, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Magic! Thanks very much! Dr. Vogel (talk) 11:45, 23 August 2021 (UTC)